Comments on: Christianity and Homosexuality http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/ Love God, Love Others, Follow Jesus... Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:46:07 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Looking Back on 3.5 Years of Blogging « The Follower http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-420 Looking Back on 3.5 Years of Blogging « The Follower Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:45:42 +0000 http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-420 [...] Christianity and Homosexuality (related to this is A Painful Lesson) [...] [...] Christianity and Homosexuality (related to this is A Painful Lesson) [...]

]]> By: A Painful Lesson « Under Construction http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-137 A Painful Lesson « Under Construction Sun, 02 Mar 2008 21:12:46 +0000 http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-137 [...] Painful Lesson 2 03 2008 It may be helpful to read my post “Christianity and Homosexuality” for some background information before reading this [...] [...] Painful Lesson 2 03 2008 It may be helpful to read my post “Christianity and Homosexuality” for some background information before reading this [...]

]]> By: Jason http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-123 Jason Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:55:14 +0000 http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-123 You're right, it is a tough issue. Lots and lots of Biblical wisdom required. The problem though is that we're all flawed and we all screw this stuff up. Being gay doesn't automatically condemn someone to hell (the "purpose" I was referring to above). If fact, I've known several gays who I have no doubt in my mind are going to be in heaven. I also don't want to say that their salvation is dependent upon the lifestyle they choose to engage in (by "choose" I mean the actions of "messin' around" or even sex; one chooses to engage in those activities). The jury is still out with me in determining whether or not a gay person can be in a monogamous relationship and still be faithful to Scripture. I know many who would say absolutely not...I just don't feel as though I have the ability to make that decision yet. I'm still growing in that area. You’re right, it is a tough issue. Lots and lots of Biblical wisdom required. The problem though is that we’re all flawed and we all screw this stuff up. Being gay doesn’t automatically condemn someone to hell (the “purpose” I was referring to above). If fact, I’ve known several gays who I have no doubt in my mind are going to be in heaven. I also don’t want to say that their salvation is dependent upon the lifestyle they choose to engage in (by “choose” I mean the actions of “messin’ around” or even sex; one chooses to engage in those activities). The jury is still out with me in determining whether or not a gay person can be in a monogamous relationship and still be faithful to Scripture. I know many who would say absolutely not…I just don’t feel as though I have the ability to make that decision yet. I’m still growing in that area.

]]> By: jeffsdeepthoughts http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-122 jeffsdeepthoughts Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:37:42 +0000 http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-122 Thanks for your thoughts. I'll mull those over. It's a really tough issue. Thanks for your thoughts. I’ll mull those over. It’s a really tough issue.

]]> By: Jason http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-118 Jason Sun, 17 Feb 2008 14:10:01 +0000 http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-118 Hey Jeff, Thanks for stopping by and thanks for your comment. I've been asked before by other Christians if I believe God creates people gay or not. My answer is usually, "I don't think I have to take a stand on the issue." Ultimately, I just don't know. I don't think the Bible tells us. I think the Bible condemns certain actions (which some people struggle with more than others) that are ultimately meant to represent the relationship between Christ and the Church, and the members of the Trinity to one another. Actions that are meant to be two people coming together "as one flesh." I want to say that however God created you is how he created you. He did so because He has a particular purpose for you to fulfill. The Calvinist in me wants to say that the purpose ultimately comes down to "some for salvation, some for damnation" all to bring glory to God. I don't think sexual orientation automatically condemns one to a certain "purpose." Hey Jeff, Thanks for stopping by and thanks for your comment.

I’ve been asked before by other Christians if I believe God creates people gay or not. My answer is usually, “I don’t think I have to take a stand on the issue.” Ultimately, I just don’t know. I don’t think the Bible tells us. I think the Bible condemns certain actions (which some people struggle with more than others) that are ultimately meant to represent the relationship between Christ and the Church, and the members of the Trinity to one another. Actions that are meant to be two people coming together “as one flesh.” I want to say that however God created you is how he created you. He did so because He has a particular purpose for you to fulfill. The Calvinist in me wants to say that the purpose ultimately comes down to “some for salvation, some for damnation” all to bring glory to God. I don’t think sexual orientation automatically condemns one to a certain “purpose.”

]]> By: jeffsdeepthoughts http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-117 jeffsdeepthoughts Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:10:34 +0000 http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-117 Wow. Fascinating stuff. I wrestle with all this: what Christ would have us answer to the question posed to your wife. A thought experiment that stopped me in my tracks: What if the gender I was attracted to was prohibitted by God? (E.G. what if heterosexuality was an "abonimation") I believe that I was born attracted to the opposite sex. Tenatively, I accept the idea that some people are born attracted to the same sex. I know that God tests and challenges us. I know that we all have thorns we'll deal with. But if God gave me a thorn that size, I'm not sure that I could overcome it. When I combine this consideration with the translation difficulties in the the words we translate as "homosexual", with the differing culture contexts (e.g. "temple prostitution" is entirely a different issue than monogomous homosexuality) this gets more difficult for me to navigate. And the fact is, we set up a certain situation: when we say to gay people "You can't marry" and "Nobody should have sex outside of marriage" what we end up doing is setting up a catch 22. I understand that some people might feel that we cheapen the institution of marriage. What they don't realize is that we've cheapened the value of monogomy already... By saying "You can't have a legitimate relationship" we've given them no reason to buy into related values, such as abstinance outside of commitment. Jesus spoke explicitly about divorce. Yet me make room in our churches for divorcees, as we should. But somehow we leave the LGBT community in the cold. The best I can do has lots of problems. For whatever it's worth, this is how I see as the appropriate Christian response to homosexuality (which on the ground doesn't differ much from yours, I think) 1) Cultivate an inclusive environment that gay people would feel welcomed in. 2) Admit the ambiguity I see in the scriptures. 3) Challenge people to seriously confront the scriptures, and to listen to the Holy Spirit. In the end, I just don't see a way to look into somebody's heart and determine whether homosexuality is a thing to overcome or a part of ourselves that God made. I think the person might determine this for themselves, though... Wow. Fascinating stuff. I wrestle with all this: what Christ would have us answer to the question posed to your wife.
A thought experiment that stopped me in my tracks:
What if the gender I was attracted to was prohibitted by God? (E.G. what if heterosexuality was an “abonimation”)
I believe that I was born attracted to the opposite sex. Tenatively, I accept the idea that some people are born attracted to the same sex.
I know that God tests and challenges us. I know that we all have thorns we’ll deal with. But if God gave me a thorn that size, I’m not sure that I could overcome it.
When I combine this consideration with the translation difficulties in the the words we translate as “homosexual”, with the differing culture contexts (e.g. “temple prostitution” is entirely a different issue than monogomous homosexuality) this gets more difficult for me to navigate.
And the fact is, we set up a certain situation: when we say to gay people “You can’t marry” and “Nobody should have sex outside of marriage” what we end up doing is setting up a catch 22. I understand that some people might feel that we cheapen the institution of marriage. What they don’t realize is that we’ve cheapened the value of monogomy already… By saying “You can’t have a legitimate relationship” we’ve given them no reason to buy into related values, such as abstinance outside of commitment.
Jesus spoke explicitly about divorce. Yet me make room in our churches for divorcees, as we should. But somehow we leave the LGBT community in the cold.
The best I can do has lots of problems. For whatever it’s worth, this is how I see as the appropriate Christian response to homosexuality (which on the ground doesn’t differ much from yours, I think)
1) Cultivate an inclusive environment that gay people would feel welcomed in.
2) Admit the ambiguity I see in the scriptures.
3) Challenge people to seriously confront the scriptures, and to listen to the Holy Spirit.
In the end, I just don’t see a way to look into somebody’s heart and determine whether homosexuality is a thing to overcome or a part of ourselves that God made. I think the person might determine this for themselves, though…

]]> By: Jason http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-111 Jason Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:14:07 +0000 http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-111 I would fully agree, gay marriage is not permitted by Scripture. There's a reality that marriage is the spiritual/relational/sexual union between a man and a woman. Scripture is clear about that. And for that reason I'm bound to only recognize, support, and approve of "traditional" marriages. I've considered writing a follow-up post on this topic out of anticipation of the marriage issue being raised. I may still do that - but no promises. In any case, thanks for stopping by. I would fully agree, gay marriage is not permitted by Scripture. There’s a reality that marriage is the spiritual/relational/sexual union between a man and a woman. Scripture is clear about that. And for that reason I’m bound to only recognize, support, and approve of “traditional” marriages.

I’ve considered writing a follow-up post on this topic out of anticipation of the marriage issue being raised. I may still do that – but no promises.

In any case, thanks for stopping by.

]]> By: teeveebee http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-110 teeveebee Sat, 26 Jan 2008 04:24:08 +0000 http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-110 I've enjoyed perusing your blog. I agree with your main point re Christianity and homosexuality. My stand is similar. The sin is not in being homosexual, it is acting on your homosexuality. It grieves me that followers of Christ often treat gay people as being the wors of sinners. However, I believe the Bible is clear that marriage is a union between a man and a woman. I do not believe that "gay marriage" is in God's design. What do you think? Blessings to you. I’ve enjoyed perusing your blog. I agree with your main point re Christianity and homosexuality. My stand is similar. The sin is not in being homosexual, it is acting on your homosexuality. It grieves me that followers of Christ often treat gay people as being the wors of sinners. However, I believe the Bible is clear that marriage is a union between a man and a woman. I do not believe that “gay marriage” is in God’s design. What do you think?

Blessings to you.

]]> By: snapshotanimations http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-109 snapshotanimations Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:36:34 +0000 http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-109 very interesting. i’m adding in RSS Reader ---- http://moleskinprojects.wordpress.com/ very interesting.
i’m adding in RSS Reader

—-
http://moleskinprojects.wordpress.com/

]]> By: cnhutch http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-108 cnhutch Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:55:35 +0000 http://devriesj.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/christianity-and-homosexuality/#comment-108 stumbled across your blog... great post. stumbled across your blog… great post.

]]>